Request for Comments on my Study Plan

[bobthemilkman]

I took and passed 3級 about 3 years ago, and moved to Japan about 2 years ago. Looking at various sample tests on the internet, I'm very confident I could easily pass N2, while still not making 100% on it. I think I'd like to try the following study plan to pass N1 for next year's December (In roughly 16 months). I know about 1700 kanji right now.

Grammar: I'd like to go through 完全マスター文法2級 and 完全マスター1級, adding all of their grammar points to an anki deck.

Vocab: I found this (warning: .pdf) vocabulary list of 7815 words, compiled by native speakers of past JLPT N1 and N2 tests. I'll likely try to memorize the entire list going kanji->reading+english, and english->kanji+reading. "Learning" 16 words a day will get me through the entire list by next December. Judging by my past experience with anki, that means I'll be spending about 20 minutes/day on this deck alone, which seems quite mangeable. (I'll additionally add the pronunciation of the terms as defined by the NHK編発音アクセント辞典, so that I can have a beautiful natural pronunciation of the terms. While this is not necessary, it seems like as good a time as any to learn the correct pronunciation, and will likely take about an extra 1 minute per term.)

Listening: I speak with my labmates and advisor on a daily basis in Japanese. I'll also try to watch, and fully comprehend (all vocab, all grammar structures) 1 NHK news clip every day. (Also adding any newly encountered vocabulary into anki.)

Supplement: I'll also try to read at least one chapter of manga every day, and input any newly encountered vocabulary into another anki deck. (I'm currently reading ドラゴンボール. Reading 1 chapter and looking up all unknown words and entering them into anki takes about 30 minutes.)

Additional Supplement: I'll take 2 more courses in 上級日本語 with my university（東工大）.

Final Test Preparation: In the month coming up to the exam, I'll take the JLPT practice questions offered at the official JLPT website, as well as taking previously offered JLPT tests.
Due to the limited amount of material of high quality practice tests for the 改正後 version of the test, I would like to not focus only on these practice tests until before the exam.


I'd like some comments on this plan. Does anyone think that I'll be missing anything? Anyone have any suggestions for things I should and shouldn't do?

[bobthemilkman]

I additionally found a shared anki deck labeled, "Title: 8555 Japanese Sentences - from the 日本語文法辞典
Tags: japanese sentences 日本語 文法 辞典"

I think also reading going through this (Japanese->English only) over the next year will also help me considerably.

[ericspinelli]

Between living in Japan and some diligent study you should have no problem passing N1. You could probably even do it in less than 16 months.

The biggest gap between 3級 and 2級・1級 is reading. I assume this holds true for N2/N1 as well. Not only do you have to be comfortable reading native texts, you need to be able to do it relatively quickly. I would recommend reading longer pieces than just manga, be it novels, non-fiction, or the newspaper.

I'm not a fan of Anki or studying with an SRS, especially at advanced levels, but I'm not going to try to convince you not to use it. I'll just say that I think you need much more exposure than just an SRS - maybe not for the test, but for mastering Japanese in general. Whatever method you use, I'd also recommend eliminating English for all but the most obscure or technical vocabulary.

If you've already bought the books, Kanzen Master is functional but I preferred どんな時にどう使う for grammar. It contains 2級 and 1級 all in one book and costs roughly the same as buying both levels of Kanzen Master anyway. I would advise not buying the Kanzen Master for 解読 but think the 長文 strategy sections are worth a quick read at the bookstore (again, assuming N1 and 1級 are comparable).

By the way, are you studying at the undergrad or grad level and what are you studying? I got my BS in EE and Physics but did it in the US before coming to Japan.

[bobthemilkman]

I hadn't bought the books yet, but I had heard good things about KM, so I thought it would be the best way to do it. I remember reading one review about it: The reviewer said something like, "If you can go through KM 1級 3 times, then the grammar on JLPT1 will be laughably easy," or something to that extent. I'll take a look at どんな時にどう使う。 Really, I'm just worried about getting a book that will not be as comprehensive as it should be.

I also thought I could do it in less than 16 months, but to do it in less than that would mean I'd have to do it in 11 months. Still doable, but that would be about 50% more studying/day. Given that I already have considerable time spent doing actual research (i.e. not reading manga), I figured the relaxed pace would be easier.

I'm a big fan of anki because of it's ability to help me maintain a large database of vocabulary I've already learned and help me retain said knowledge. That being said, I'm a bit worried about just loading up a vocabulary list and memorizing all of it, but it seems as though that might be the most effective way to learn new vocabulary. So far it seems as though I know about 60-80% of the vocabulary in that list I showed earlier, so I don't think it'll be too big of a deal.

I'm worried about reading novels and whatnot because oftentimes there might be a paragraph or two that I just absolutely can't read, and then I can't very easily progress in the story. It's demoralizing and demotivating and not enjoyable. I think newspaper articles might be a good idea. (I also like reading manga because it's a quasi-break from studying. :P)

I got a B.S. in Nuclear/Radiation Engineering with a minor in Japanese in the U.S. (Georgia Tech). After that I moved to Japan and spent 2 years getting my M.Eng. in Nuclear/Radiation Engineering through an international program at Tokyo Tech (東京工業大学) where most of my classes are in English. I'm about to start my D.Eng. in Radiation Engineering.

[julianjalapeno]

Keep in mind that the vocab for N1 has ballooned from 10,000 words to 18,000. I would recommend learning them in context and not just their meanings.

The grammar section is also harder than the old 1kyuu. You cant just memorize a grammar point and be done with it, you`ll really need to understand it. Half of the grammar questions on the last test were stuff that wasnt covered in any JLPT prep book, so be warned.

I would say just read as much native material as you can stomach. Spend less time on the manga and more on novels and newspapers.

[ericspinelli]

I'm just worried about getting a book that will not be as comprehensive as it should be

どんな時 and Kanzen Master should cover the exact same material and the overall style is similar. I just find the organization of どんな時, being one book, to be better for both study and review. My experience is solely with 2級・1級 materials; the N2/N1 materials may vary.

I'm worried about reading novels and whatnot because oftentimes there might be a paragraph or two that I just absolutely can't read, and then I can't very easily progress in the story.

The best way to get better at reading is to read. The longer the work, the less important each individual paragraph is and the general flow of the story usually makes things apparent in hindsight. Read past the troublesome part and then come back to it the next day.

If you're really worried, try reading something that's been translated from English or that you already know the story to (the first book I ever read in Japanese was Tom Sawyer). I find novels to be easier than newspapers based on style, vocabulary, and kanji use, though I think most people assume the opposite based on experience with more transparent languages like Spanish (where the more technical the article, the more transparent the vocabulary).

If you're not into books in the first place it's a mute point, but there are ways tackle materials outside your comfort zone and the payoffs are worth it.

I moved to Japan and spent 2 years getting my M.Eng. in Nuclear/Radiation Engineering through an international program at Tokyo Tech (東京工業大学) where most of my classes are in English. I'm about to start my D.Eng. in Radiation Engineering.

Interesting. How do you feel about the level of education? I've heard graduate-level studies are more vigorous than undergrad (which seems abysmal) but suffers from bureaucracy, hierarchy, and high numbers of professors with god-complexes. While I'm sure that is all true to some extent, I'd be curious to hear about your experiences. Also, how is the quality of the English instruction? Is it comparable to foreign professors teaching in US schools?

[bobthemilkman]

I wish there were some easy way to get a comprehensive list of grammar points for the N1 test. If, for example, I didn't know the grammar point 〜によって, I don't think any amount of reading or passive exposure will allow me to learn the point unless I look in a grammar book and see it say, "〜によって means, "depending on", for example, 「色によって量が違う」 = 'Depending upon the color (of the object), the amount (it contains) will differ.'" From then, once having learned this grammar point, I think that reading and passive exposure will greatly help my ability to remember it, and use it correctly, and know when to use it, but I'd really like to just start with a grammar book, memorize its contents, and then go from there. I'm really against the idea of solely passively learning grammar points.

Since my immediate goal is the passing of the JLPT N1 test, it seems that a compiled list from a JLPT prep book would be best, but it seems as though the JLPT prep book writers haven't yet been able to get a complete list for the new N1. If there's a large amount of grammar points not in the old １・２級JLPT prep books, then I think I'd like to just go through the grammar points listed in a non-JLPT prep book, and supplement that with additional reading/conversation.

Interesting. How do you feel about the level of education? I've heard graduate-level studies are more vigorous than undergrad (which seems abysmal) but suffers from bureaucracy, hierarchy, and high numbers of professors with god-complexes. While I'm sure that is all true to some extent, I'd be curious to hear about your experiences. Also, how is the quality of the English instruction? Is it comparable to foreign professors teaching in US schools?

The level of education, at least at 東工大, is very high. One of my professors was Kazinsky's Ph.D. student. (Kazinsky literally wrote the book on Nuclear Reactor Design.) Several other of my advisors were top-level special emergency advisors to Kan in the running up to and aftermath of the Fukushima disaster. (If we could all look the other way in regards to our personal feelings for the current PM, and simply acknowledge the prestige of an emergency cabinet-level advisor position, that would be nice.) They're all highly respectable members of the nuclear physicist community.

The workload compared to Georgia Tech is much much lower. (Note that Georgia Tech is famous for its unbearably large workloads.) I suppose someone coming from UCBerk or MIT would likely have the same experience. The English language ability of the professors varies greatly, but all of the advisors are sufficiently profficient in English relating to their field of research, and all regularly read and write scholarly articles on their research. Two of my professors have lived in the U.S. for extended (>5 years) periods of time. Once again comparing this to Georgia Tech, I'd rate the overall English proficiency of the professors of my department at slightly below that of the (non-English-native) professors at GATech. (Essentially, if you've gone through an undergrad engineering program at any U.S. university, you should already be very well acquainted with understanding foreign accents discussing scholarly topics. It's comparable, but slightly lower, than that.)

[julianjalapeno]

Since my immediate goal is the passing of the JLPT N1 test, it seems that a compiled list from a JLPT prep book would be best, but it seems as though the JLPT prep book writers haven't yet been able to get a complete list for the new N1. If there's a large amount of grammar points not in the old １・２級JLPT prep books, then I think I'd like to just go through the grammar points listed in a non-JLPT prep book, and supplement that with additional reading/conversation.

Thats my current plan of attack.

I purchased a vocab book for native Japanese students trying to pass their college entrance exams, plus a thesaurus, and between the two theres nearly all the difficult words on the last test that werent in any JLPT prep book (and believe me, I`ve gone through them all).

My problem now is finding a good way to study grammar. The JLPT prep books do help, but they werent enough, I felt. I`ve tried finding similar books for Japanese students, but the grammar books they use are much different, and even at high school levels still emphasize basic stuff and seem more geared towards helping with writing.

I think I`m just going to read a lot, review Kanzen Master, and go through those Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar as carefully as I can.

[bobthemilkman]

So my plan of attack for learning grammar is decided, but the question remains as to which grammar book(s) I should learn from.

I'd like to just go through something like どんな時にどう使う or 完全マスター or 日本語総まとめ、memorizing each grammar point. どんな時どう使う seems to have about 500 grammar points. 完全マスター (2級＋1級） seems to have 170 in 2級 and (estimating from 2kyuu) 200 in 1級, so about 370 total there. 日本語総まとめ seems to have about 384 between N2 and N1. So, by numbers alone, どんな時どう使う is the most comprehensive, but there might be a large number of grammar points in there that I'm already familiar with, or that come from sub-N2 level, meaning that while having more grammar points, it has less grammar points that I care about studying.

So the question is, which is the best to study from? It seems as though どんな時どう使う would be the most comprehensive, but are there a large number of grammar points that are in the other ones that aren't in どんな時どう使う?

[ericspinelli]

It seems as though どんな時どう使う would be the most comprehensive, but are there a large number of grammar points that are in the other ones that aren't in どんな時どう使う?

どんな時 is 1級・2級 only. I've lent out my copy so I can't give examples but I do know that some of the same headers reappear when the usage is different, inflating the number of headers/grammar points slightly (though I'd say repeats account for less than 20 of the total).

Since you're in Japan, swing by a large bookstore and check out your options. The larger Kinokuniya in Shinjuku (the one near Takashimaya) has a good selection, though I haven't browsed their 日本語 texts in quite a while.

Thanks for the info about 東工大. It's interesting to hear about various experiences.

[dimitri_can]

You will be shocked that there are even some N3 or some grammar that you never seen in your life before.
I had that for my N1 exam last year. =)
Only about 5 N1 grammar were tested.
I rather u spend more time on 読解.

Tell me which N1 or N2 book can u find this word, ご尊顔

[bobthemilkman]

You will be shocked that there are even some N3 or some grammar that you never seen in your life before.

I doubt that will shock me, as I am expecting it to happen. I've hardly studied any grammar at all, and I only rarely pick up new grammar points passively. (Which is really why I'd like to go through a book point by point.)

I thought it would be a good time to study 標準語発音, since I'm going through an 8k word vocab list, but it seems as though this is taking up way too much time. I'm spending about an hour a day just on pronunciation, and it's not going to be tested for. I think it'll be easier to wait until I get *much* more comfortable with the vocabulary, and then learn pronunciations. I think I'm just gonna cancel that portion of the study. It was just kind of added as an afterthought, and I thought it would not take up much time, but it's taking up a ton of time.

So I think I'll pick up どんな時どう使う, go through all of it in about 3 months (6 grammar points/day = 83 days).

I suppose I should probably also read several novels, since 読解 seems be a recurring stressed point here. Perhaps 1 novel/month would be a good pace? Should I be reading more than that? I suppose I should read 吾輩は猫である. Are there any other famous Japanese novels that all learned people are supposed to have read? It would probably be a good time for me to read them. 源氏物語 probably wouldn't be as good as it's written in 平安時代の日本語。

So to recap, and also go over my current schedule:
7815 vocab words collected from previous JLPT 1級 tests. Learning 25/day and adding to anki (312 days).
8555 Japanese Sentences from 日本語文法辞典 in anki. Doing 25 new cards/day (342 days) (I'm starting at the beginning, which is on about an N4 level. I could easily do 100-200/day for now, but I don't want to overpace myself. I may also additionally go through the first 2-3000 in 2-3 weeks, and then slow down to 25/day.)
どんな時どう使う - Learning 6/day (83 days) and adding to anki.
1 NHK news video clip/day - Studying all unknown words and adding them to anki. Working on the clip until I can listen to the clip and understand it completely without aid. (I may increase this to 2 or 3 or more clips/day. I feel this is really helping me.)
1 novel/month? - Novels appropriate for middle-high schoolers. Adding all unknown words to anki. (I'll likely adjust the rate at which I read novels based upon everyone's responses.)

Supplements:
1 manga chapter/day - I just personally like manga, and it will help me with casual conversation, which may very likely pop up. Adding all unknown words to anki.
Daily casual conversations in Japanese. (Technical conversations on nuclear physics are carried out in English.)
Daily emails to my girlfriend in English/Japanese. Weekly dates with her in English/Japanese. (I can't be greedy. I have to help her with her English, too!.)
One 上級日本語 course per semester at my university. (I may also take a few classes in Japanese on technical topics I'm already familiar with.)
Living in Japan, avoiding English except when necessary.

[julianjalapeno]

I think that looks like an ok plan, which I`m sure you`ll adjust as it suits you over the course of the next 16 months.

My one suggestion would be to read books meant for adults and not just middle school-level. Get some stuff that really challenges you and has themes and ideas that arent completely spelled out like with books for young adults. The reading section will be hard with vague questions, lots of material, and boring subjects, so you need to be on your game.

[bobthemilkman]

I was thinking of some books along the lines of
坊ちゃん
こころ
吾輩は猫である
西遊記
And anything else that all educated members of society are expected to have read. (That are written in modern Japanese)

[bobthemilkman]

Well, unless anyone has any additional help they'd wish to bestow upon me, I think I'll proceed with my lesson plan as I mentioned 2 posts above.

For どんな時どう使う, I'm going to use this version. While lacking the "study-friendly" structure of the どんな時どう使う500文 edition, it seems to contain (roughly by my calculation of the index), 670 +- 20 grammar points, including 4級 and 3級 points. (Hey, those points will be easier and it *definitely* won't hurt me to review.) I assume that the 2・1級どんな時どう使う pulled it's lists from this version. While also containing explanations both in Japanese and English of the grammar points, and also containing more example sentences. Doing 7 a day will get me through in just under 100 days.

After I finish going through my vocab and grammar lists, I'll increase my intake of Japanese media.

Thanks for all your help everyone, I couldn't have formulated my study plan without all of your help.

[julianjalapeno]

The only other thing I would suggest is that you read stuff you`re really interested in. If Kokoro is something you`ve always wanted to read, then more power to you. But if you`re just reading it because its a literary standard, you may get bored pretty quick.

[ericspinelli]

Well, unless anyone has any additional help they'd wish to bestow upon me, I think I'll proceed with my lesson plan as I mentioned 2 posts above.

My only other advice is that you should have started already.

The only other thing I would suggest is that you read stuff you`re really interested in. If Kokoro is something you`ve always wanted to read, then more power to you. But if you`re just reading it because its a literary standard, you may get bored pretty quick.

Agreed. I think I've started こゝろ two or three times and never gotten past the first couple of chapters. 吾輩は was a little too difficult for me the first time but since my girlfriend says it's hilarious, I might give it another go.

As for "all educated members of society," I would consider that a stretch. I'd be willing to bet that most Japanese view works like these the way English speakers view Shakespeare: we all know it's Important, we all had to read a couple pieces in school, and everybody knows a quote here and there but a lot of us find it dry, boring, and most of us only really know enough to not embarrass ourselves.

[bobthemilkman]

I'd be willing to bet that most Japanese view works like these the way English speakers view Shakespeare: we all know it's Important, we all had to read a couple pieces in school, and everybody knows a quote here and there but a lot of us find it dry, boring, and most of us only really know enough to not embarrass ourselves.

That's exactly what I meant.

[NeWbY]

I went and bought the どんな時どう使う500 book for my N1 self-studying for it. Thanks for the suggestions here