Heisig Method - Remembering the Kanji

[robrobbery]

I tried this method but found that it didn't suit me at all, so I abandoned it in favor of the Basic Kanji and Intermediate Kanji series. I found that I could learn kanji faster and remember them better, because I was learning the readings and then being able to read them when I came across them during the day. Reinforcement was the key. I never really felt that the Heisig method was any good, but people who use it seem so convinced that it's the best way.

I'm not convinced that it's good to learn the kanji's meaning and the reading separately.

I was wondering what you guys think about it.

[Applecart]

I think Heisig's insistance that you must learn the writing & "meaning" of kanji seperately from the readings is misplaced. I certainly happily ignored that dire warning. However, I found the method of considering the kanji as patterns composed of repeating sub-elements to be really helpful. Of course anybody who gets familiar with the kanji will end up with the same knowledge of those elements, it's just a different way of going about it, and one that speeds it up IMHO.


I also liked the basic kanji books, but I switched to Kanji in Context after the first book. One thing though- doesn't that series only go uo to about 1000 or so kanji?

[robrobbery]

yeah, the Intermediate Kanji series only covers up to the 1000 kanji necessary for Level 2. That reminds me, I'm almost finished that series, so I'm looking for recommendations on good kanji books that cover the next 1000 kanji. Does Kanji in Context do that?

[synewave]

I love Heisig. Within 6 months I went from being able to write 300 odd kanji to over 2000.

Admittedly I couldn't read them all after that time, still can't. However it seems much easier now to pick up vocab since I'm already comfortable with the written form and "meaning" of most characters that I come across.

I know people who've passed １級 without ever having heard of Heisig. However as a gaijin in Japan being able to write the 常用 set and then some is pretty good in my book.

Heisig isn't difficult, one just has to put the time and effort into it. In my case, it was the single best thing I have done to improve my Japanese ability.

As far as JLPT is concerned Heisig gave me something from a vague idea, to knowing the meaning of all compounds in there. This has allowed me to focus on the part of the language that I don't have a clue about...grammar!

[robrobbery]

But don't you find it frustrating that you still can't read all these kanji? I know I would, but it depends on the person, I suppose.

Also, I've heard a lot of success stories about how quickly people complete RTK Book 1 and know all the meanings. But how long does it take to get through the whole course, ie being able to read and write ALL of the 2000 kanji? I'm only on 950 kanji, but I can read and write them all.

I guess memory works differently for each person.

[synewave]

But don't you find it frustrating that you still can't read all these kanji?

I can't pronounce them all, I agree. But for those that I can't pronounce it's not often that I look up their meanings or readings (unless I am "studying"). Heisig gives a good enough base that you can have a go at authentic texts. After last month when I was having a good go at JLPT2 grammar, I'm now spending time just reading news articles online.

Also, I've heard a lot of success stories about how quickly people complete RTK Book 1 and know all the meanings. But how long does it take to get through the whole course, ie being able to read and write ALL of the 2000 kanji?

Good question. My opinion is that if someone wanted to learn how to read, write and understand 2000+ kanji in the quickest time possible, Heisig's RTK1 would be the route to take.

That said, I'm not in a race, I chose the Heisig route after failure; boredom; perceived lack of success with more traditional methods. My tolerance of hard work is pretty low, Heisig seemed like a bit of a shortcut to get where I want to be

[TheSleeve]

Hooked-on-Heisig worked for me.

I've currently finished the first 1600 kanji and I'm hoping to finish the rest in time for the JLPT. I put my mnemonics into my flashcard program to practice, and I keep a database of them in excel. As I see the kanji more and more in reading, I learn the readings gradually. If I ever forget the meaning of a kanji or the mnemonic, I just look it up in my excel file while reading. I can honestly say that after a little less than a year, I can read a website and understand more than half of the kanji on it. That's pretty good.

Heisig makes outrageous claims that you can't try to use his method and others at the same time, but I disagree. Anything that helps you remember is good... so I use his method in conjunction with regular reading for reinforcement.

I'm reading "Death Note" right now (it has furigana) and even though I don't know all of the words, I can figure out the meaning from the kanji. So easy! I never thought this would happen, but now I get really annoyed when there's a word that doesn't use kanji... because I have to look it up.

[mithrilfox]

Given the choice to be able to read a Kanji or write it, I wouldn't even have to consider it: read. Reading is infinitely more important than writing the Kanji. After all, if you can't read them, it's likely that you can't use them properly. And even if you can occasionally use them, without being able to read them, you're completely off-balance. It's like being able to shoot baskets really well but having no ability to dribble or catch the ball; you're not much of a player.

I am quite the opposite: I can currently read over 70% of the Kanji for JLPT 2級 and some other Kanji here and there that I learned through novels, signs, etc. However, I can only write a handful of them. If I look at the Kanji, I can probably write it according to proper stroke order without much effort at all. However, my situation is clearly the result of necessity. There is no express need for me to able to write the Kanji by hand, as over 95% of my writing occurs via computer and cellphones.

However, the need to read the Kanji is immense. Beyond even personal goals like novels, magazines, tests, my Bible, etc., I also need to be able to read signs, tickets, schedules for work, notices, information about my apartment and neighborhood, bills, etc. Of necessity my reading ability is increasing constantly, especially due to my constant Kanji study (studying 31 flash cards week, though I meet many Kanji that I knew previously).

And on the JLPT, as I'm sure most of you already know, there is no writing section; it's unnecessary to know how to write the Kanji. In fact, they test heavily on reading ability. For example, a Kanji compound like 環境 will appear in a sentence, and the optional answers you will have to choose from will look like this: 1) かいきょう　２）かんきょう　３）かいきょ　４）かんきょ

It's easy to see how being able to read it alone isn't even good enough; you need to be sure you know it exactly (most people will eliminate かいきょう and かいきょ, but some will struggle to remember whether the vowels are long or short.

I do not recommend the Heisig method; it does not conform to modern knowledge of the brain, nor does it mirror the way that native speakers learn. The best method is the simplest and most straightforward: just learn the Kanji, how to read them, and what they mean. Avoid translation as much as possible as you get further in your studies, and try to get a "feel" for the meaning rather than a English meaning in your head; our brains are actually not fast enough to process translation while listening to a foreign language at native speed.

Translators of course are not the same thing. They do not translate into their native language for meaning, they translate into a language after acquiring meaning in order to communicate. They hear the language, understand it, and then translate. That is entirely different from hearing the language, translating it, and then understanding it -- it's quite backwards.

[synewave]

I do not recommend the Heisig method

Each to their own.

it does not conform to modern knowledge of the brain.

Are you suggesting that mnemonic devices don't work?

nor does it mirror the way that native speakers learn.

So what? Japanese people spend 9 years in school learning to read and write kanji.

Heisig makes it easy to see the difference in meaning of visually similar characters like 浦, 捕, 補, 舗. Admittedly you want to be able to read them as well. But doing Heisig and learning to read kanji aren't mutually exclusive. The idea is you do RTK1 (maybe 6 months) then hit the readings you don't already know.

[robrobbery]

I tend to agree with mithrilfox on this one. Look at it this way; if you had 10 ten years to learn those kanji, it probably wouldn't matter what way you did it, because it would eventually all get done anyway. The Heisig method seems to promote faster learning, ie Book 1 in 6 months, move onto Book 2 and 3 and get it done faster than other methods. The problem is, the amount of people who actually even make it through Book 1 seems to be quite small. Among those who do, it's quite rare that you hear from someone who did the whole 3 volumes in under 2 years. To me, that indicates that Heisig isn't faster or necessarily better than just learning the kanji systematically. However, with Heisig, you can't read the kanji for a relatively long time. You're missing the valuable reading reinforcement you get in everyday life in Japan. I abandoned the Heisig method when I realized this.

So, my advice is: if you're the kind of person who can really focus and get through Book 1 very quickly, this might be for you. But if you think it will take longer, just do "normal" study. Reading is far more important in day to day life in Japan, I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

[synewave]

The beauty of Heisig is RTK1. RTK2 has some useful information but I gave up as I wanted to start putting my new found kanji knowledge to use, i.e. reading newspapers and books.

If you put the time in, you can get through RTK1 in 6 months or less. Then even though you might not be able to pronounce all that many words you can have a reasonable go at guessing meanings through the Heisig keywords and the context.

Admittedly you can't guess the meaning of every kanji compound you come across via the keyword meaning. Some are 100% obvious and others the keywords don't help you at all.

However going the non-Heisig route, how do you deal with meaning of compounds that you haven't seen before?

Presumably, unless you are just brute forcing readings into your head, you employ some kind of mnemonic devices. This is the kind of "trick" that Heisig is all about.

[TheSleeve]

Japanese people spend 9 years in school learning to read and write kanji.

Let's not forget that's just the first ~2000. Accomplishing the same in a little over a year (while being completely surrounded in an English-speaking culture) isn't bad...

I agree in part with mithrilfox, but I also disagree in part.

I'd say that RTK1 is almost useless without RTK2, but not completely. I live in the US, but I go to Japan on business. A lot of times, I'm traveling alone on trains, reading menus at restaraunts, etc... and I simply need to read something and understand it. I don't actually need to talk to anyone, just understand what I'm looking at. In that case, meaning is key. By recognizing the meaning from the writing of the kanji, even if I don't know the reading at all, I can pretty much understand a ton of words I've never seen before. I just can't say them out loud. However, since I've started RTK2, that has changed...

RTK2 will give you one 音読み for each character. Certainly there are more readings, but knowing the basic one will get you through 90% of the situations you encounter. You'll also naturally learn 訓読み through basic vocabulary, so no problem there.

I've tried in the past to learn the readings by pure memorization, but for me it's impossible. If you can do it, your brain must function in a different way than mine. (I'm jealous!)

Going back to the example, 環境, the second volume of RTK will tell you that one pronunciation for 環 is カン, the same as 還 because they share the common primitive on the right (which takes the meaning of "fellowship" in my weird little mnemonics...). Also 境 can take the reading of キョウ, as does 鏡 (the "mirror" primitive on the right). It's still memorization, but at least you're getting a bit of a shortcut along with it... killing two birds with one stone. In other examples like 浦, 捕, 補, 舗, you'll notice that all of those characters have the same reading, ホ, because they all share a common primitive on the right. Learn one reading, get three kanji for free! In some cases, you can get up to 5 or 6 kanji with one primitive reading: 包、砲、泡、抱、胞、and 飽 can all be read as ホウ because of the "wrap" primitive they all share.

True that your brain can't process the info at proper speed... Certainly, the first time I come across a new word I have to slowly go through the steps of remembering the meaning of each character, then coming up with the reading of each, and then hoping that it is a standard reading and not some weird one. It completely halts the flow of my reading. However, I can still work my way through it using the Heisig method without a dictionary, and when I run into the word a few times more, I can read it naturally at full speed... whereas a person learning by strict memorization would really need to have drilled and memorized that word before, or else consult a dictionary.

Then again, one thing I've learned in life... as diverse as people are, their brains are even MORE diverse... a "perfect" learning method for one person can be completely useless to another. Hence the many options available.

[JimmySeal]

Synewave keeps using the figure "6 months or less," but I completed RTK1 in 3 months, and I know of people who've done it in as little as 2 months.

Contrary to what many people believe, the main purpose of RTK1 is not to learn how to write all the characters but to become familiar with all 2000 very fast. Ironically, this carries with it the bonus of knowing the characters so well that you can write them all from memory.

Heisig enables people to be able to recognize and identify all 2000 kanji in a few months. I think that's amazing and something that no other widespread approach can claim. From that point on, learning to pronounce the characters will be, and will always be, much easier than trying to learn them without the boost that RTK1 provides. Isn't that worth spending 3 months working through it?

[Applecart]

... I'm looking for recommendations on good kanji books that cover the next 1000 kanji. Does Kanji in Context do that?

Yes. From memory it covers all the standard use kanji as well as a few extras that are common in newspapers etc but that aren't on the list.

[mithrilfox]

Although the Heisig method is no good for me, I don't want to say that it's an absolutely waste. As one poster said, it gets the job done for him. If you are using the Heisig method and you are getting the results that you want for meeting your own personal goals, then you have found a succesful study method. Keep it up.

However, I personally don't recommend it because it doesn't do the "whole job," so to speak. Knowing the readings are important, and I believe that they should come along with the Kanji from the very beginning. This is partially because of the goals I have set for myself; without the readings, I fail to meet my goals.

I also want to discourage anyone from such a study method. I highly recommend learning the Kanji fully: readings, meaning, and how to write them. Priority for most people will be reading and understand them, because the necessity to write them probably is not so great as the necessity to read them. Mnemonic devices are inherently slow, because we are accessing information indirectly; it's like going to someone else's desk at work and asking them to get something from another person's desk. Why not just go get it yourself? The more direct the recall, the faster the recall speed. And when it comes to language, speed is critical.

Yes, I realize that after enough time has passed many people no longer need the mnemonic devices, but some evidence suggests that there are those who inadvertently become reliant on it in a semi-permanent fashion (they continually use it over and over).

It's also important to know and realize that many Kanji have irregular readings, and that there are many Kanji with the same root character that do not share the same sound. During a Kanji study session with my Japanese tutor, we discussed this very issue. Although there is often a connection between many Kanji radicals and the sound, many do not share any sound-radical connection.

I also dont' like the heavy reliance on using English for memorizing the Kanji. We need a Heisig method that includes the readings of the Kanji characters.

[Eomer]

it's like going to someone else's desk at work and asking them to get something from another person's desk. Why not just go get it yourself?

Because (in the beginning.. and even after years and years of study...) it is insanely easy to forget where the other persons desk is.

I personally have found that studying the writing of the characters has made studying the readings a walk in the park. I started studying kanji last July, and this August I took and passed the Kanji Kentei level 6 (825字). If it were not for heisig, there is no way I could have done that.

[mayankshiromani]

even i m entangled with remembering kanjis. can you enlighten me about the HEISIG method.i ll really appreciate it.

[synewave]

Sample of the book available as PDF (at bottom of page):

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/pub ... anji_1.htm

Site dedicated to helping students of RTK:

http://kanji.koohii.com/

[robrobbery]

I started studying kanji last July, and this August I took and passed the Kanji Kentei level 6 (825字). If it were not for heisig, there is no way I could have done that.

You mean July last year? Just over a year of study? I don't see why you couldn't learn the same material without Heisig. In a year, you could build up reasonable reading skills by studying the kanji and their readings together. Your success in the Kanji Kentei is due to your own hard work, is it not? Why attribute it to the Heisig system?

[synewave]

I don't see why you couldn't learn the same material without Heisig. In a year, you could build up reasonable reading skills by studying the kanji and their readings together.

Forgive me if you already know this. The kanji kentei is a test unlike the JLPT in that the majority of people who take the test are Japanese. Kids at junior high school use it to help them get into a "good" high school.

It isn't simply a mark sheet like the JLPT and unlike the JLPT knowing how to read but not write kanji won't be enough to pass. If my memory serves me correctly, over 50% of the marks are for writing kanji.

I'm convinced that the Heisig method is the most effective way for gaijin to memorise the writings and "meanings" of the kanji in RTK1 as well as make it easier to go on to learn readings and compounds as we already know something of what the kanji is about.

Of course if one doesn't actually want to memorise the writings I can see why one might not be attracted to the Heisig approach.