Aren't a lot of the 1kyuu words useless?

[jaystak]

For me, a student of any language should always learn the words in order of the frequency of their occurrence in daily life. After all, what is the point of learning difficult and obscure words if you're still lacking in some of the basics? I believe that this is happening to me to a certain extent in my 1kyuu studies. Sometimes I will ask my wife for an example of a word in use, but she won't even know the word to begin with. At school, other teachers sometimes see the words I am studying and they can't read them. And yet I can watch Japanese TV any day of the week and hear plenty of words I don't know, but my wife always does.

There seems to be a gap in 1kyuu. The gap is between words that a native Japanese speaker knows and doesn't know. We shouldn't be forced to study words a native speaker doesn't know for a test, especially if there are lots of other words out there that are much more useful.

Imagine a student of English learning words like misanthropic, paleolithical or apostasy if they didn't already know words like society, options, or strange. Maybe those aren't the best examples, but you get the message. Shouldn't 1kyuu be testing us on all the words that will get us through daily life, and not making us run through hoops with ridiculous word puzzles that are seemingly designed only to catch people out rather than test their knowledge?

Just a thought.

[Osaka]

Well, I suppose that depends on the purpose of the test. Many of the obscure words and grammar on the JLPT1 reading lists are useful in specific situations -- reading older books, in formal business situations, etc. (Many of the more obscure words from the list never seem to make it onto the actual test at all.) Your wife may have learned and then forgotten some of the words with limited application; does she remember any of her 漢文 or 古典?

The JLPT does not test functional communication skills, or "new" words and widespread slang. You'll never see ギャランドゥ (over 400K hits on Google) or デコ電 (over 1M hits on Google). That's not necessarily a bad thing as far as most test-takers are concerned. Those words aren't necessary for studying in a Japanese university or taking orders from your boss at a factory or translating patents for medical devices. They also go in and out of style quickly... my friends are surprised and nostalgic when I mention a manzai group or some ピン芸人 (375K hits, not in my dictionary) who was popular three years ago.

For those folks hoping to use the test just to gauge overall language ability at a given time, yes, this turns out to be a drawback. I don't blame the JLPT for it because I think the test does what it sets out to do.

[routinfigneuton]

>>misanthropic, paleolithical or apostasy
haha you are exaggerating these words don't appear on the test.
but like said above, jlpt 1 tests stuffy japanese, not the kind you speak with your friends.

on the other hand most of jlpt 1 info is useful, and thousands of people pass each year, if that encourages you

[JanneM]

[ericspinelli]

You also seem to be forgetting that this is a Japanese test written by Japanese people. You will be rewarded for memorizing obscure, minute details and your ability to apply what you have learned in a non-standard way will have little to no impact on your ability to pass. It might even hurt you. Have you ever seen, for example, the English required for high school and university entrance exams?

The test is what it is. I don't expect all that much to change even with the 2010 revisions. From here, there are two ways of looking at it. One, you can study the official publish guides and material and learn only what is on the list. Two, you can study comprehensively assuming that by the time you have learned such esoterica and can pass the test you will have mastered the common language. Those who choose the second way have the option of using the test either for benchmarking or challenging themselves.

[JanneM]

[ericspinelli]

[routinfigneuton]

[jaystak]

Yes, the test is what it is, I know. But I suppose I just felt like I was wasting my time learning words like 呉越同舟 when are still a ton of much more useful words I still don't know out there. Sometimes studying for 1級 makes me feel like I've lost sight of my real personal goal, to be able to read and communicate fluently in Japanese.

[JanneM]

[zxaar]

[jaystak]

I think the reasoning behind the obscurity of the JLPT 1 is the same reasoning which destroys English learning for Japanese school students, particularly high school students. The university entrance exams focus on a lot of ridiculous and useless vocabulary, stuff that native English speakers have never even heard of. The disproportionate difficulty of it destroys enthusiasm in students. Studying English becomes a purely academic activity, bereft of the joy which learning a language can and should have. I don't think the JLPT is as bad as that, but there are similarities.

Anyway, I've ranted long enough. Frustrations aside, with some more study I am confident that I can pass 1級, but even if I do, I get the feeling that there will still be a gap between the useful words I know and the stuff I learned for the test which I will probably never ever use or hear anyone else using.

[Jonathan]

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in JLPT level 1 that the average high school student wouldn't know.

[jaystak]

[zxaar]

[JanneM]

[snallygaster]

Hey zxaar, when you do that, try showing them without telling them what it is, and ask them to estimate about what grade level it would be for Japanese students. When I did that, the most common response was "junior high school". Ouch. I think that's lowballing it a bit, but whatever.
When I told them it was the top level Japanese test for foreigners, there was frenzied teeth-sucking and cries of "even we don't know this! Too difficult!"

[ericspinelli]

[Jonathan]

Reading section is probably the most difficult for native speakers because often there are multiple correct answers and the test taker has to pick the "most correct" one. I sometimes miss reading questions even on English profiency exams because of this.

I work in a very low ranked non-academic school, and the students here are incapable of passing College entrance exams but I'm confident they'd have no problem at all with JLPT level 1. That said, it is alarming how low their 国語力 is.

[zxaar]

Ok, I also showed the level 1 exam paper.
And everyone suggested that it is only up to the level of highschool.

so since so many people saying that it is highschool level of japanese, we shall assume it to be high school level (well done james bond)

Anyway, i think that every exam has a gaussian type pattern for its question.
That is few questions would be very very tough. Few questions would be very very easy.
And most of it would be of average difficult with toughness of it hanging around average level.

Now thinking this i do not think that it is good idea to kill ourself trying to get those 5% of most difficult questions right.

It would be rather wise to concentrate on 70% of average and easy questions.
Further if you stop worrying about 5% of questions you might find more time for average portion and actually end up scoring higher than what you would have if you worried too much about 5% of difficult paper.

just a thought though.